Say it ain't so that Josh and/or Lido pools is still installing pools. He has gone bankrupt before. He did my pool and I have been hiring people to fix most of the problems. Some will be problems forever. Just dished out $2200 this summer and $2100 2 summers ago. Here is a follow up. I have not spoken to Josh in years. I posted my review Approx 4:00pm on Fri. By 5:20pm Josh cantacted me on my cell phone and accused me of being Malicious. I turned on my cell phone on Sat. There were 16 text messages from Josh. He again accused me of being melicious. I find it interesting that he knew right away who had written the review but has no recolection of any problems. In reading Josh's responses to other bad reviews, he accused each of us us of being malicious and/or slanderous. Here's the reason I only wrote this review after a few years. First of all I thought Josh/Lido was out of business. Each Spring I'm reminded of Lido/Josh as I deal with or incur additional charges to fix problems that have existed from the beginning due to design/ shoddy work. Here are some of the issues. The spill over spa lifted twice when rain water got under the spa. This would never have happened if the spa was ankored or put on a cement pad. The back fill was not done properly. This causes the interlock to fall next to the pool. The solution would be to lift the interlock, dig up the area around the pool have it properly back filled or pour concrete. After installing the liner it was discovered that chips of cement were left under the liner. Rather than empty the pool and lift the liner, Josh had his employee move the rocks with a screw driver. The liner was punctured in a number of spots and the liner leaked. Josh refused to replace the damaged brand new liner instead Josh instructed his employee to put silicone to plug up the holes. The holes are in the shallow end by the steps. Silicone does not last without people walking on it. Lido did not install the backwash pipe which was in the contract. Josh was quite angry that I insisted it be installed. The backwash pipe was not buried properly. It sticks out in a number of places on my lawn. Lido did the cement pad for the cabana housing my pool equipment. They did not put the heater on blocks. They positioned the pipes for the pool right in front of the heater so they blocked the heater access panel. The heating elements must be cleaned as preventative maintenance. Service men refused to work on my heater. The heater died after only 6yrs. The filter is installed sideways so it's difficult to access the drain plug which is needed for pool closings. The pool cleaner did not work. Josh did replaced the first one. However, the new one still didn't work (It wouldn't clean the shallow end). Josh said I needed to experiment with it to get it to clean my shallow end cleaned. I discovered the angle from my deep end to my shallow end is too drastic for most cleaners. Some of the equipment installed was not the brand listed in the contract. If Josh would like to rectify the problems. He can re-emburse me out of pocket expenses to fix the problems. Pay to fix problems still not rectified. I wish someone had told me this when I was purchasing my pool. The contract: The pool company will ask for up to a 30% deposit when signing the contract. Give no more than 10%. They will ask for as much as 20% when they dig the pool. Then up to 30% when they drop your equipment. The hole will be dug in the 1st week. The equipment will be dropped off by the 2nd week. They have 80% of your money for only 20% of the job. It looks like you're well on schedule. That's when it becomes hard to get in touch with your contactor and the job will linger. They know you can't go anywhere else because you've paid for 80% of the job with only 20% complete. If the pool company is legitimate, they will accept a snall deposit with the balance upon completion. Hold back at least 20% upon completion. Remember if it's not in the contract they will not do it once they have your money. Last response: 1) There are 18 reviews here 3 are negative 17% of people responding have been unhappy with Lido. 100% of the negative responses have been accused of malicious slander. 2) all my dealings were with Josh. He supervised all of the construction and employees. 3) spring 2001 is 8yrs. 4) $7,400 was after reciving threats from Josh. We held back 10% $3,500. Not enough. 5) The spa has always been winterized correctly with water left in the spa. FYI The cement pad has corrected the problem. 6) Josh was not pleased nor did he suggest his employee should use a screw driver to move the stones under the liner. However, he he did not want to empty the pool to do the job properly. He also would not replace the liner after his employee put holes in the brand new liner. He was satisfied with the silicone solution. 7) There was no cabana when Josh built the pool. It was built after the pool. The hoses and the heater were installed by Lido. Very clearly the hoses obstructed the heater door. 8) Robot pool cleaners work well and can handle any bad slopes. I paid $1,000. 9) Back fill is what is used to seal in your pool. It has nothing to do with the interlock. However if it is done incorectly, the back fill will sink and damage the interlock. I have this problem only around the pool. The rest of the interlock is good. 10)Many phone calls were placed to Josh. His final response to me was a threat of legal action to collect the final 10%. 11)I'm sure Josh has done some good pools. Clearly he has also done some poor quality work. My advice is to get as many recomendations as you can before hiring a pool contractor. Ask the pool supply stores, neighbors or even people who you spot have a pool. The pool stores know all the contractors. The pool contractors who reset the hot tub, made a cement pad and installed the new heater were recomended from a pool store. Very satisfied!
- Approximate cost of services:
- $40,000.00
- Company Response
Established since 1968, Lido Pools has secured a reputation within the industry for quality construction, innovative concepts and creative designs. We have won many national awards and the vast majority of our clients are very satisfied, so much so that we are 95% referral. We have done no advertising for over 15 years and sell out to capacity every year. We deliver a value added quality product, stand behind it vehemently and relish an opportunity to correct any shortfall.
In 2000, the principals entered into an agreement of sale and licensed the “Lido” trade entity to a purchaser for a 2 year trial period. During this period Lido Pools was a registered trade name that was operated by that purchaser, “Lido Industries Inc.” after which time it was to be re-negotiated pending the new entities ability to maintain the integrity that Lido had build up since their inception. I was an employee under contract for the “hand over” period and could not provide direction usurping the new owners. September 2000 to February 2002 is the timeframe involved, which in essence included the 2001 building season. The principals of this new regime opted to expand at a rate greater than they had the ability to maintain and the result was there were some issues. When it had become evident that “Lido Industries Inc” had these issues, the “Lido” trade entity licence was relinquished, resulting in the new regime deciding to dissolve their corporation. No other entity other than “Lido Industries Inc” has owned or controlled the Lido building company before or since that specific time frame. For the past 47 years, this 17 month period was the only time that the founding family did not have control of the entity.
Most all of these issues were minor with a couple that were moderate. The dissolution design included provisions for all of the clients to retain approximately double the amount of funds required to complete any outstanding issues. There were also provisions prohibiting the “Lido” trade entity from contacting the clients of “Lido Industries Inc” directly so unless they came to us after the re-acquisition was established we hadn't the ability to look after them. An unfortunate excerpt in our history but a valuable lesson learned.
Regarding Joel of Thornhill, we have not had one account of contact from him since 2001 until he had posted the review in Nov 09’. The review had contained inaccurate and incomplete information that in our opinion was libelous. We had contacted him firstly to enlighten him to our finding and to extend the opportunity for an evaluation to explore the possibility that there was in fact a bona fide complaint. He was quick to rewrite his original review excluding certain comments and declined our offer of evaluation. Certain important facts that Joel had neglected to include in his review:
• This pool was built in spring 2001 & was at the time of the review posting almost 9 years old, a few years old as initially described Joel claims that he wrote this review “only after a few years”. A few years, nine years, there is a difference & it is misleading.
• Joel had neglected to note that he never paid approx $7,400 remaining on the contract according to our records. Perhaps this outstanding balance was part of the reasoning as to why there was no contact from him over the past 9 years.
• Joel is not a pool professional & has only gathered snippets of comments made by what I can assume are the people that have worked on it over the past 9 years. This pool is located on Arnold Ave & is well known for being a low lying area susceptible to water. We have built many others in this neighbourhood, notably 2 just across & down the street that have their whole backyards underwater during heavy rain falls.
• Joel notes how we didn’t anchor the spa. It’s a fiberglass shell with expanding foam on the bottom; there are no hooks to anchor to. Installation includes putting it on a base. It’s simple physics, if the hydrostatic (water) pressure beneath the spa exceeds the counter balance of water contained within the spa itself, it will float. The manufacturer’s winterizing instructions note to empty the spa. We have developed a technique for winterizing these spas that includes refilling them over a membrane after the pipes have been prepared to provide the necessary counter balance. It is common knowledge within the industry that concrete and fiberglass pools should never be left empty and this spa is the same. It is our opinion that whoever winterized his spa did not provide for this factor and that lead to the lifting, not improper installation. If it had water in it, it never would have lifted. Even a heavy rain can lift them if overall conditions are not favourable and the spa water level is lower than ideal.
• Chips of cement beneath the liner; it is common in high water table areas that the liners can float in early spring time when the pool water level is low and the ground water high. This can lead to tiny particles migrating and this may have been the case here. The remedy is to remove the liner, clean and reset, not puncture holes and silicone. I know the difference and I would never authorize a fix as that. There were over 30 employees of the company and sales occupied 95% of my time. If the serviceman or other had elected to do that, I find that hard to believe but not having firsthand knowledge of that cannot affirm or deny.
• As for burying a backwash pipe; there was a phalanx of 50’ + trees boarding the entire east side where the pipe was instructed to be run. The attempt to minimize trauma to the root system resulted in the pipes not being as deep as he would have liked. With the tree protection laws in place currently, this would not be allowed at all.
• As for the plumbing on the filtration in the cabana; I’ll give him that, it had been redone because it was not the best but he also had us squeeze it into an area that was too tight so that he could maintain his cabana floor-plan.
• As for his pool slope, it’s NSPI code, so nothing wrong there.
• As for the pool cleaner, they were $400, they work on degree of randomness & get most places. They don’t guarantee that they clean everywhere perfectly. Even the $2500 ones don’t claim 100% success, they do what they do & that’s it. If there was an issue with the cleaner itself, it would be under warranty directly from the manufacturer.
• As for the interlock patio, we weren't even contracted to do it. Joel contracted this out to another source. Besides, it’s common knowledge that settling can occur over time, as well this case certainly could have been compromised by the existing water table.
• As for the payment schedule, the deposit is 15%, always has been, not 30% as Joel claims. Our contract is completely in line with all of the major players & in fact allows for a hold-back in excess of some of the biggest companies.
In conclusion, we had never heard back from him so how would we know he had any problems. He had a money amount withheld that surpassed what he claimed he paid out. Some of his problems are a result of uncontrolled water and age of the pool. Certainly we’d like to see this pool operating properly despite the circumstances and elapsed time. All he had to do is place one call to me to apprise me of his concerns & be reasonable as to solutions. Instead, there is no trial, only a conviction. As for percentages, there are 40 reviews, 3 negative, 1 relating to service that is completely erroneous, another that we took the fall for a referred landscaper. As far as a new build this review is the only one relating directly to us and it isn't us as pre 2000 & post 2002, it was us specifically the year 2001 when we did not own or control the company, the only excerpt in our history of over 47 years that we did not. To evaluate in an accurate context negative response is not 17%, it’s 2.5%. The reality of it is here the same as with any contractor, there are people that deserve to post negative reviews that haven’t and others that should post positive reviews that have yet to. It’s a matter of motivation and awareness. All of our responses are organic, we don’t instruct, they do on their own decision.